New genealogists all the consider Afgan kadД±nlarla tanД±ЕџД±n this high one Nicholas’ spouse Clementia is incorporated here since, below regular points, she would not be said. Whenever Susanna at the specific after day gotten out over a different sort of protector, the brand new wife of that protector wasn’t mentioned.
This will mean that Queen John spent a little while indeed there and you will the potential for an amorous liaison that have Clementia can be acquired
Below listed here is an idea advanced because of the some eminent genealogists, but it’s reasonable to state that the fresh new results are hotly contested!
So it concept causes a wonderful and you will interested ‘twist’ about facts out of Joanna, which may interest admirers out of HBD!
At first glance, there is absolutely nothing to highly recommend any union amongst the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and you may Clementia, wife of Nicholas de Verdun. not, sensation of particular genealogists that have international hostages, like young ones, might have been which they have been tend to placed that have family members, or no were readily available.
Jumping forward to 1236, there clearly was an entrance in the Tewkesbury annals hence applies to Joanna’s mommy because “King Clemencie!” They checks out simply:
Today, we know your mother off Joanna is actually called Clementia (Clemence?
In cases like this the latest monk is evidently indulging within the gothic legalism. Before their own passing, Joanna is legitimised because of the Pope. On the basis of one to legitimisation, the new Tewksbury monk evidently took they abreast of themselves to elevate Joanna’s mother to your status of Queen, as if her mommy got Queen John’s wife! It is true although not, one Queen John and Clementia was never ever hitched. By the writing about Joanna’s mother given that “Queen” Clementia, the latest monk just who recorded Joanna’s dying is actually demonstrating his high respect getting Joanna, although not trying to change the genuine products.
As for the identity away from Clementia de Verdun, Paget implies that she was the brand new child off Roger de Dauntsey, off Wiltshire. One to genealogist takes into account they extreme one Clementia acclaimed regarding Wiltshire due to the fact he’s got pointed out that Queen John got an effective attachment so you can that condition, they as being the house from his most trusted partners, the latest Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found that title ‘Clementia’ is actually extremely rare among English noblewomen associated with period. In a single table from women’s labels which was obtained, there were simply several events of your own label “Clementia” out-of a total of 1407 ladies in the newest sample! The truth that people titled Clementia might possibly be associated with the Susanna is recognized as extreme.
Therefore! The evidence are suggestive, although not conclusive, you to definitely when you look at the 1228, Susanna, while the an effective hostage, got over to the fresh care of their own maternal granny, now spouse off Nicholas de Verdun!!
The new Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ hold one Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 inside Gwynnedd, Wales and you may died c. 1259 in the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife when you look at the 1230 along with a few pupils: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.
Obviously, discover avoid objections to all or any it supposition! Queen John got of a lot mistresses and possibly as many as 7 illegitimate people. The caretaker out-of Joanna might have been produced circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was created circa 1191 (14 yrs . old during the time of her relationship to Llywelyn). Rohese, brand new understood genuine child of Nicholas de Verdun with his spouse Clementia was born circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia try the mother away from Joanna, she would come in their own late 30’s, very early 40’s whenever giving birth to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, particular state, however, not likely.