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Shoreham so you’re able to Dieppe; Henry up coming goes to France, John staying in

Shoreham so you’re able to Dieppe; Henry up coming goes to France, John staying in

He had been at the most 21 and you will possibly younger than if his child Joanna came to be. She might was the fresh new oldest of all children he fathered of the his some mistresses.

John was born in December 1167

1187 June - John inside the France when Chateauroux was being besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 30 - Henry efficiency to help you The united kingdomt, possibly with John in tow 1188 Summer - Henry delivers John returning to , crosses out of 1189 Summer several - John in the Ce Man's when disarmed because of the Henry's acquisition, and then John escaped or was provided away having cover 1189 July six - Henry I passes away during the France 1189 Aug. twelve - Richard brings John back into The united kingdomt which have your 1189 Aug. 31 - John partnered in order to Isabelle regarding Gloucester on Marlebridge 1189 Sep. 3 - Richard crowned within Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard sends John for the Wales to subdue the brand new rebellious Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you're able to and you can pushed with the oath not to ever put foot for the The united kingdomt for a few ages 1190 Summer - Richard continues crusade [John getaways his oath] In regards to our aim, it’s thought that the first several months, while the really almost certainly going back to Joanna to have been designed, 's the 1187-nine months. 1187 - John uses about the entire year during the France 1188 - John may have gone back to England from inside the January, however, of the summer is sent back to France, where he seemingly have remained 1189 - John seems to be for the France January - August, going back so you can The united kingdomt when you look at the August in preparation to own his relationships on the 29 Aug. If John made not unrecorded returns to The united kingdomt, it would appear that the guy spent in the 80% from his go out away from January 1187 up until their marriage, in France . He was will eventually because of the State from Mortain, into the (ahead of Richard's coronation).

These pointers, given the months as well as the fact that Joanna was brought in order to The united kingdomt away from France inside the 1203 to own their own matrimony so you're able to Llywelyn, gives credence towards the idea that Joanna and her mommy was out-of French/Norman origin.

Provided plus John's really-known philandering during this time period, here is apparently of numerous individuals with the character out-of mom off Joanna!

My prior post gave every piece of information you to Paget showed that it was Clemence de- Dauntsey, whom married Nicholas de Verdun. I considered that it was this new Nicholas and you may Clementia so you can exactly who Henry 111 supplied this new child custody out-of Susanna (because the a great hostage) when you look at the 1228. After a new a lot of time search although not, I am able to find zero trace out of a beneficial Clemence de Dauntsey from inside the the newest details. I did so look for not, this new advice of just one genealogist whom clearly mentioned it…’ In my opinion that we (the new genealogists) have established that there is actually zero including person as the Clemence de Dauntsey. That identity of partner off Nicholas de- Verdun was a blunder by Paget!’

I’m prepared to accept that end, because next analysis of one’s details of your own next Clemence turned-out much more productive.


Clemence ce Boteler came into this world from the 1175 in Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Her father try Philip ce Boteler (born circa 1150).

Clemence ce Boteler partnered Nicholas de Verdun when you look at the 1202 (his second spouse just after their marriage to Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, so it relationships is not shown) in the Alton, Staffordshire and so they got one youngster, Rohese de- Verdun who was simply produced when you look at the 1203 or 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).

If, in fact, Joanna is actually the consequence of an effective liaison anywhere between John and you may Clemence le Boteler (who was indeed old up to 14-15 at the time), it might was indeed quite difficult toward Le Boteler family members to get the right partner to own Clemence. Indeed specific ten years ticket just before a beneficial ily?) with a trustworthy English nobleman and you may property owner, Nicholas de- Verdun. Leaving out for the moment the chance that Nicholas had dropped in love with the brand new twenty seven year old Clemence and you may planned to wed their, it would were important for John to incorporate Clemence with particular property from her own to make sure that she turned a far more glamorous award getting their own husband to be.

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